UKVoIPTalk.com

On Fri, 2 May 2008 10:09:51 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
<gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:

[color=blue]
>So what would you want out of a residential VoIP service?[/color]

Not a lot actually Gordon mainly a provider which does not lie to its
customers has voip.co.uk have done for over 12 months or more ,if they
now do not want residential customers why don't they crawl from under
the stone that they are hiding under and tell people. If something is
sadly wrong with their systems and are unable to proved the new
tariffs why don't they tell us not just keep quiet in the hope that
all the residential customers will go away ? .

On Fri, 02 May 2008 10:09:51 +0000, Gordon Henderson wrote:
[color=blue]
> As yet another VoIP/ITSP type of enterprise, I find that it's one of
> those business conundrums... I provide VoIP, PBXs, etc. to businesses,
> and I have a "hosted" system, but it's aimed at the small business
> rather than the residential market - however I do have a small number of
> people (Basically friends & family) using it in a residential manner.[/color]

It would be nice to think this earns you a some goodwill, and if any of
your residential users knows someone who's after a phone system, they'll
recommend you.
[color=blue]
> But could I support 100's or 1000's of residential customers? And do I
> want to when "Betamax" exists offering free calls? (Which I certainly
> won't do!)[/color]

What's the point in offering residential VoIP service? The main driver
for residential customers is price, and most people can get free evening
and weekend calls as part of a package that comes with their line rental.
Line rental that they'd have to pay for to get broadband to use a VoIP
service with anyway. The best residential VoIP service for Joe Bloggs is
Skype. All his mates use it, installing it is a matter of clicking 'next'
a few times, and he can even get it to work on his mobile when he's out
and about. The residential users who want the technical features that
come with VoIP know what they're worth and will be happy to pay for them.

<snip rundown of providers>
[color=blue]
> we're not exactly short on choice.[/color]

Exactly. It's a blood bath, stay the hell out.
[color=blue]
> And I have to say, the biggest issue I've faced with people working from
> home, etc. is that they're tight fisted b'stards who'll go for the
> cheapest and most rubbish ISP they can get their grubby paws on, and
> then whinge when their VoIP doesn't work...
>
> <grumpy-old-man> Bah! </grumpy-old-man>[/color]

Which probably explains why voip.co.uk withdrew their £20/year service
and don't have anything to replace it. It's just not worth the hassle
supporting people that you're making pennies from. Spend too long on the
phone supporting a particularly inept customer and you can kiss your
profit for the month goodbye!
[color=blue]
> So what would you want out of a residential VoIP service?[/color]

I think Sipgate's service pretty much covers what I'm after. The only
gripe I have is the per-minute rather than per-second billing, but other
than that I really can't complain given the cost.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
22:09:13 up 68 days, 5:04, 2 users, load average: 0.11, 0.05, 0.06
Convergence, n: The act of using separate DSL circuits for voice and data

In article <481b8720$0$657$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>,
alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=blue]
>[/color]
....lots of snippage ...

Thanks for this. Quite Intersting, and food for thought...
[color=blue][color=green]
>> So what would you want out of a residential VoIP service?[/color]
>
>I think Sipgate's service pretty much covers what I'm after. The only
>gripe I have is the per-minute rather than per-second billing, but other
>than that I really can't complain given the cost.[/color]

Also intersting, as Sipgate and myself share a common wholesaler, and
knowing the rates I get from them, I find this curious (but they could
be on a better rate than me!) Telephone billing systems are a black art
unto themselves. I'm sure universities will be offering PhD's in it
soon... (I bill by the second, but rounded up to the next 1p)
[color=blue]
> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
> 22:09:13 up 68 days, 5:04, 2 users, load average: 0.11, 0.05, 0.06[/color]

Pah, I see your 68 days and raise it with:

11:35:06 up 926 days, 21:37, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[color=blue]
> Convergence, n: The act of using separate DSL circuits for voice and data[/color]

I have one customer with 3 ADSL lines. One for general office data, one
for incoming calls, and a 3rd for outgoing calls.... Still cheaper for
them than ISDN30 apparently, and of-course, I get call revenue from
their outgoing calls ;-)

Gordon

In news:fvhfep$84r$1@energise.enta.net,
Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> typed, for some strange,
unexplained reason:
: In article <481b8720$0$657$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>,
: alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >
: ...lots of snippage ...
:
: Thanks for this. Quite Intersting, and food for thought...
:
: >> So what would you want out of a residential VoIP service?
: >
: >I think Sipgate's service pretty much covers what I'm after. The only
: >gripe I have is the per-minute rather than per-second billing, but
: >other than that I really can't complain given the cost.
:
: Also intersting, as Sipgate and myself share a common wholesaler, and
: knowing the rates I get from them, I find this curious (but they could
: be on a better rate than me!) Telephone billing systems are a black
: art unto themselves. I'm sure universities will be offering PhD's in
: it soon... (I bill by the second, but rounded up to the next 1p)

I think that one of the reasons why Sipgate bill per minute is that they
give the numbers away for free. I don't know of any other VoIP supplier
who does that and for me it's worth it in the savings on monthly rentals.

In fact, if you only call 0800 and Sipgate numbers, there's no obligation
to put any credit on your account at all, I have a friend who's had a
Sipgate number for 3 years and it's never cost him a penny. He only uses
it for 0800 and to call me and a handful of other friends on the system.

(Cue Ron with his rantings..!)

Ivor

On Sat, 3 May 2008 12:04:01 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In news:fvhfep$84r$1@energise.enta.net,
>Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> typed, for some strange,
>unexplained reason:
>: In article <481b8720$0$657$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>,
>: alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>: >
>: ...lots of snippage ...[/color]
[color=blue]
>
>I think that one of the reasons why Sipgate bill per minute is that they
>give the numbers away for free. I don't know of any other VoIP supplier
>who does that and for me it's worth it in the savings on monthly rentals.[/color]
Some of the Finarea companies, such as JustVoip, charge just one Euro
for an incoming number.
If I remember correctly voip.co.uk provided the first number for free
and a one-off additional charge for further numbers,
I got the strong impression, from a remark made on the voip.co.uk
forum, that 'residentials' weren't of any great interest to them. The
statement, as I remember it, was to the effect that the 'business' of
ALL the 'residentials' were matched by a single business customer.
It is not surprising that they don't prioritise 'residentials'.
I now use JustVoip and all the ATAs that I have control of will go
that way. I have found the performance of JustVoip, so far, via the
Voxalot eu server, to be excellent.


---
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alexd wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> What's the point in offering residential VoIP service? The main driver
> for residential customers is price, and most people can get free evening
> and weekend calls as part of a package that comes with their line rental.
> Line rental that they'd have to pay for to get broadband to use a VoIP
> service with anyway.[/color]

People like myself using cable broadband do not pay line rental,
therefore voip gives me a "traditional" landline without paying the
extra £11 per month.

On Sat, 3 May 2008 12:04:01 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In news:fvhfep$84r$1@energise.enta.net,
>Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> typed, for some strange,
>unexplained reason:
>: In article <481b8720$0$657$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>,
>: alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>: >
>: ...lots of snippage ...
>:
>: Thanks for this. Quite Intersting, and food for thought...
>:
>: >> So what would you want out of a residential VoIP service?
>: >
>: >I think Sipgate's service pretty much covers what I'm after. The only
>: >gripe I have is the per-minute rather than per-second billing, but
>: >other than that I really can't complain given the cost.
>:
>: Also intersting, as Sipgate and myself share a common wholesaler, and
>: knowing the rates I get from them, I find this curious (but they could
>: be on a better rate than me!) Telephone billing systems are a black
>: art unto themselves. I'm sure universities will be offering PhD's in
>: it soon... (I bill by the second, but rounded up to the next 1p)
>
>I think that one of the reasons why Sipgate bill per minute is that they
>give the numbers away for free. I don't know of any other VoIP supplier
>who does that and for me it's worth it in the savings on monthly rentals.
>
>In fact, if you only call 0800 and Sipgate numbers, there's no obligation
>to put any credit on your account at all, I have a friend who's had a
>Sipgate number for 3 years and it's never cost him a penny. He only uses
>it for 0800 and to call me and a handful of other friends on the system.
>
>(Cue Ron with his rantings..!)
>
>Ivor[/color]
Just how many times do I have to tell you to **** OFF Ivor .

In news:f0to141slr1r8l7ca5hmi8bq5apnahp22m@4ax.com,
[email]mymail@hotmail.co.uk[/email] <mymail@hotmail.co.uk> typed, for some strange,
unexplained reason:

[snip]

: Just how many times do I have to tell you to **** OFF Ivor .

As many as you like, Ron..!

Ivor

On Sat, 03 May 2008 13:04:10 GMT, BC
<bacillus.cereus@nospam.gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>alexd wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> What's the point in offering residential VoIP service? The main driver
>> for residential customers is price, and most people can get free evening
>> and weekend calls as part of a package that comes with their line rental.
>> Line rental that they'd have to pay for to get broadband to use a VoIP
>> service with anyway.[/color]
>
>People like myself using cable broadband do not pay line rental,
>therefore voip gives me a "traditional" landline without paying the
>extra £11 per month.[/color]
Likewise, and I actually prefer voip.
Via voip the calls are so cheap that the 'free' calls offered by
landline companies become insignificant.

---
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
---

Brian A wrote:

e voip.co.uk[color=blue]
> forum, that 'residentials' weren't of any great interest to them. The
> statement, as I remember it, was to the effect that the 'business' of
> ALL the 'residentials' were matched by a single business customer.
> It is not surprising that they don't prioritise 'residentials'.[/color]

However, don't forget that the "New Platform" they developed was bult
for residential customers.

I think they still plan to launch new residential tariffs, but clearly
there is some reason why they haven't. Perhaps they are waiting till the
market settles down first. With free calls on offer from other
suppliers, they'll find it hard to be competitive on price.

Compare the POTS third party carrier market, where at one time calls
were free, then 0.5p per call through 18866. Now they are around 5p or
6p per call from the same company. A competitor would have been wise to
wait for that rise before launching in opposition. Perhaps voip.co.uk
are waiting for betamax to do the equivalent.