UKVoIPTalk.com

In article <47e8b4c3.20518953@news20.forteinc.com>,
Jose <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote:[color=blue]
>On 21 Mar 2008 10:03:09 GMT, alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>B) SIP-capable PBX on site. This will involve a bit more work and
>>expertise on your part, but [depending on how many extensions are
>>involved] could lower costs and increase reliability.
>>
>>If you've got a spare PC, you could test out scenario B with PBX In A
>>Flash [pbxinaflash.net], as it will likely work with the ATAs you already
>>have.[/color]
>
>These 2 alternatives seem to depend on one kind of sofware or another,
>either open source running on the IP PBX, or running in a PC (which I
>find even worse...)
>
>I tend to trust *firmware* a lot more than software, and I don't mind
>that the firmware is proprietary - I find there's a resonable choice
>of proprietary, SIP complaiant, devides to chose from, so no problem
>of monopolies here.[/color]

It's an intersting discussion - the firmware vs. software one, and one
I've had many times over the years - my background (20+ years ago) was
writing software for embedded systems - robotics, factory automation,
etc. and even then the division was becoming blured - firmware to us
then was just software in ROM.. But when it becomes changable in EPROM
(which I used back then), or Flash (nowadays) does that still make it
firmware? Most embedded devices now can be re-flashed, with new software,
or is it new firmware?

Hard to tell these days...

The whole Linux in a PC thing is also intersting - My units boot off flash
- no moving parts, (and depending on the case option, sometimes no fans
either) so is that firmware? It runs on "industrial" spec. motherboards
rather than desktops, but does that make a difference? (Actually, to me,
it does from a component count and power point of view!)

And I think that Snom phones run Linux - booting out of flash too -
is that firmware or software?

Cisco routers boot proprietary code out of flash and into RAM, but you
can re-flash the software (firmware), so ....

It really is a "fuzzy" area these days, I think.
[color=blue]
>I'm inclined into ATAs, and real or vitual PBXs (or both), depending
>on the specific final requirements.[/color]

Indeed, but you still need something to connect the ATAs to, if you want
to enable the phones to call each other. (Without dialling IP addresses,
which some let you do)
[color=blue]
>In the ATA department, I've liked a Grandstream 8 FXS +1 or 2 FXO
>ports, and a huge 24 FXS ports ATA.[/color]

There are some 24-port analogue cards for PCs if you're intersted in
going down that route. Not 100% what the cost breaks are though. Also
there is a nice USB connected "channel bank" too. A lot might depend on
your existing wiring, eg. if you want it all in a rack to fit into an
existing wiring scheme, then it might make sense to pick some
rack-friendly hardware.
[color=blue]
>The "normal" PBX department is revealing a lot more dificult to find
>information about - the manufacturers I've found some information
>about seem afraid to show the specs of their equipament, and the rest
>only show on retailers with the "let's meet and discuss your needs"
>aproach :-P[/color]

It's a weird area... I've found existing "legacy" sellers to be an odd
bunch too ;-) What I've found is that *everything* is licensed, so when
you look at the base unit, it might seem attractive, until you add on
the licenses required for each line, freature, knob and whistle. This
is probably why they want to "meet and discuss your needs" ... Stuff
based on open source typically isn't licensed, unless the seller wants
to impose those sorts of terms (which they're prefectly entitled to do!)

One intersting area that I've found is that no two of my installations
have been identical - another reason to sit down and work out what you
need and what might be best... Is that one advantage of a software PBX
in that it's changable/customisable... ? Maybe it's giving too much
choice... It's always good to have a choice though!

So post your needs here - number of seats, number of lines,
requirements, expectations, desires and so on and lets see what we can
come up with... (Without trying to incur the wrath of those who might
think it's a commercial posting!)

(and maybe it's time for an update on my own website...)

Cheers,

Gordon

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
<gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>It's an intersting discussion - the firmware vs. software one, and one
>I've had many times over the years - my background (20+ years ago) was
>writing software for embedded systems - robotics, factory automation,
>etc. and even then the division was becoming blured - firmware to us
>then was just software in ROM.. But when it becomes changable in EPROM
>(which I used back then), or Flash (nowadays) does that still make it
>firmware? Most embedded devices now can be re-flashed, with new software,
>or is it new firmware?[/color]

Hi Gordon,

If it can't get viruses, and if you can reboot it and be sure to have
it working at least as well as previously to the reboot, with
degradation of code, it's firmware to me.


[color=blue]
>Indeed, but you still need something to connect the ATAs to, if you want
>to enable the phones to call each other. (Without dialling IP addresses,
>which some let you do)[/color]

Well, it turned out the fellow choose the cheapeast solution he could
find: he'll install softphones on the PCs of about 20+ employees (in
one of the offices), and get them USB phones, to use along side the
analog phones they already have.

Since they'll all be using the same Voip provider, they'll be able to
call each other for free.

That's good enough for him, plus some other functions he'll get from a
Centrex PBX solution installed in one of the PCs.


I'm kind of disapointed, but I don't have a saying about it...

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience!

Jose

In article <47ea5210.31039750@news20.forteinc.com>,
Jose <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote:[color=blue]
>On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
><gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>It's an intersting discussion - the firmware vs. software one, and one
>>I've had many times over the years - my background (20+ years ago) was
>>writing software for embedded systems - robotics, factory automation,
>>etc. and even then the division was becoming blured - firmware to us
>>then was just software in ROM.. But when it becomes changable in EPROM
>>(which I used back then), or Flash (nowadays) does that still make it
>>firmware? Most embedded devices now can be re-flashed, with new software,
>>or is it new firmware?[/color]
>
>Hi Gordon,
>
>If it can't get viruses, and if you can reboot it and be sure to have
>it working at least as well as previously to the reboot, with
>degradation of code, it's firmware to me.[/color]

Thats as good a definition as any, I suppose...
[color=blue][color=green]
>>Indeed, but you still need something to connect the ATAs to, if you want
>>to enable the phones to call each other. (Without dialling IP addresses,
>>which some let you do)[/color]
>
>Well, it turned out the fellow choose the cheapeast solution he could
>find: he'll install softphones on the PCs of about 20+ employees (in
>one of the offices), and get them USB phones, to use along side the
>analog phones they already have.
>
>Since they'll all be using the same Voip provider, they'll be able to
>call each other for free.[/color]

One thing to watch is "internal" calls in the same office - depending
on how it's setup, it might be that to make an internal call, the data
goes back out the broadband connection to the remote voip service,
and back in again... That may not be a problem though depending on the
number of calls handled, and the sip proxy the VoIP operator uses.
[color=blue]
>That's good enough for him, plus some other functions he'll get from a
>Centrex PBX solution installed in one of the PCs.[/color]

Good luck!
[color=blue]
>I'm kind of disapointed, but I don't have a saying about it...
>
>Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience![/color]

Cheers,

Gordon