UKVoIPTalk.com

is it just me or is voip confusing .......

i have always foud the plethora of mobile deals confusing and
hard to workout best value .............

VOIPS even more confusing ,ther seems to be a collection of
companies offering service but everyone seems to have a mixed views
on them , i see a compnay with good reviews then days later someones
tearing them apart ....there doesnt seem to be any clear winner at the
moment ..... maybe the markets not mature enough yet ? would youagree ?

Except maybe SKYPE ..i say this mainly as its the only well known brand
in the market ... but i get the general feeling its the AOL of the viop
market
...maybe along the lines of Viop for dummies ...or thats the impression some
people give ...its easy to set up and use but never best value ? and due to
its
popularity with the dummies its service can be erratic ?

Also is viop really a service you should only set up and useif you REALLY
have
a need for it ..one thing that confuses me is the costs ......... calls
arent really free
are they and landline/mobile calls are so cheap now theres no REAL saving is
there?
if yourplanning to keep your exisitng land line and mobile ?

Phew .. services ! theres seems to be plethora of services available but no
one
central place thats list available services so you can try and guage what
services
you might need ? nothing worse than signing up for aservice to read about
feature you would reallylike


I have a small list of my OWN must haves at the moment ..anyone know a
decent
company that can suffice


1. ability to prepay by paypal
2. no monthly service charge
3. good rates
4. no contract
5. ability to choose a local number
6. multiple numbers to 1 viop line
7.different rings for different numbers
8. ability to port in Bt numbers

an collection of othr features i dont know i need yt likely

Well, yes, there are lots of deals and largely thanks to Betamax, it is a
major pain to try to work out which one to go for. Then there are all sorts
of cheap deals on landline calls too, making any savings via VoIP fairly
minimal.
And most of us have mobile contract deal too.

In my own (fairly special) case, (I don't have a landline :-) I gave up on
Betamax etc. and just stick with
sipgate.co.uk.
It gives me rental free UK geo. landline No., I use it for 0800 calls,
infrequent foreign calls, and of course free calls to other VoIP users.
It works just fine ( I have QoS VoIP router ) and I pay very little (just
for the foreign calls).

It easily covers 'Homeworker's' first 5 points.
6. can have multiple sipgate Nos, but needs hardware (e.g. suitable router)
to ring one phone.
7. can be done with some hardware, or asterix.
8. no one can do that at present

Regards,
Martin

Martin² submitted this idea :[color=blue]
> asterix[/color]

The Gaul?

ASTERISK

:-)

"Martin²" <never@give.one> wrote in message
news:13o5qc6909p6v01@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Well, yes, there are lots of deals and largely thanks to Betamax, it
> is a major pain to try to work out which one to go for. Then there are
> all sorts of cheap deals on landline calls too, making any savings via
> VoIP fairly minimal.
> And most of us have mobile contract deal too.
>
> In my own (fairly special) case, (I don't have a landline :-) I gave
> up on Betamax etc. and just stick with
> sipgate.co.uk.
> It gives me rental free UK geo. landline No., I use it for 0800
> calls, infrequent foreign calls, and of course free calls to other
> VoIP users.
> It works just fine ( I have QoS VoIP router ) and I pay very little
> (just for the foreign calls).
>
> It easily covers 'Homeworker's' first 5 points.
> 6. can have multiple sipgate Nos, but needs hardware (e.g. suitable
> router) to ring one phone.
> 7. can be done with some hardware, or asterix.
> 8. no one can do that at present
>[/color]


Likewise with voip.co.uk - 'cept they don't participate in inter-voip
dialling by access code, so the only free calls are to other voip.co.uk
users.

To the OP - note that it is voip, not viop. (Yes, I've got a dyslexic
keybrod as well!)


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:02:34 +0000, Homeworker wrote:
[color=blue]
> is it just me or is voip confusing .......
>
> i have always foud the plethora of mobile deals confusing and hard to
> workout best value .............[/color]

And if things were simple you'd be whinging about the lack of choice :-)
[color=blue]
> VOIPS even more confusing ,ther seems to be a collection of companies
> offering service but everyone seems to have a mixed views on them , i
> see a compnay with good reviews then days later someones tearing them
> apart ....there doesnt seem to be any clear winner at the moment .....[/color]

That's the trouble with opinions, they're like assholes - everyone's got
one.
[color=blue]
> maybe the markets not mature enough yet ? would youagree ?[/color]

Not at all. I suspect, however, that calls will effectively be unmetered
when bundled with mobile, fixed line and broadband contracts before VoIP
ever reaches a large part of the population, effectively eliminating or
even negating the cost savings.
[color=blue]
> Except maybe SKYPE ..i say this mainly as its the only well known
> brand in the market ... but i get the general feeling its the AOL of the
> viop market
> ..maybe along the lines of Viop for dummies ...or thats the impression
> some people give ...its easy to set up and use but never best value ?
> and due to its popularity with the dummies its service can be erratic ?[/color]

Skype always worked when I used it. I stopped using it because I moved to
64-bit before they had a 64-bit version. When I finally did install it
again, they'd wiped my credit [but not, er, closed my account]. My advice
is to give any of the eBay group of companies a wide berth, and if you
absolutely have to use them, only trust them with small amounts of money.
[color=blue]
> Also is viop really a service you should only set up and useif you
> REALLY have
> a need for it ..one thing that confuses me is the costs ......... calls
> arent really free
> are they and landline/mobile calls are so cheap now theres no REAL
> saving is there?[/color]

Once you factor in equipment costs, it may take a loooong time to see a
return on your investment. If, however, you're doing it just for a bit of
fun, or to fulfil a specific need that existing PSTN services cannot,
then go for it.
[color=blue]
> if yourplanning to keep your exisitng land line and mobile ?[/color]

If you've got a BT landline you can use access codes and call throughs
that will get you rates competitive with VoIP.
[color=blue]
> Phew .. services ! theres seems to be plethora of services available
> but no one
> central place thats list available services so you can try and guage
> whatbothering to services
> you might need ? nothing worse than signing up for aservice to read
> about feature you would reallylike[/color]

There are plenty of things worse than that. The trick is to do your
research before you commit too much. The beauty of SIP is that any SIP
equipment/software should work with any SIP provider, so your main
capital costs will be protected should you decide to switch supplier.
Many services are PAYG anyway so it's not like you've got a lot to lose.
And you can even use a softphone to prototype it on your PC before you
spend anything.
[color=blue]
> I have a small list of my OWN must haves at the moment ..anyone know a
> decent
> company that can suffice
>
>
> 1. ability to prepay by paypal[/color]

If you drop this one you'll get a wider choice.
[color=blue]
> 2. no monthly service charge
> 3. good rates
> 4. no contract
> 5. ability to choose a local number
> 6. multiple numbers to 1 viop line[/color]

I suggest you use hardware or software that allows you to register
multiple accounts. This will bring you flexibility on pricing, call
routing &c.
[color=blue]
> 7.different rings for different numbers[/color]

In theory it can be done with SIP, but I haven't seen any service
providers that offer it. OTOH, I've never looked.
[color=blue]
> 8. ability to port in Bt numbers[/color]

Plenty of operators can do that.
[color=blue]
> an collection of othr features i dont know i need yt likely[/color]

That's a tough one to answer.

Sipgate fits the bill for most of your requirements. If you mix and match
from different service providers you will get better control over call
costs. VoIP certainly makes more sense on Cable where a) you don't have
to pay line rental to have broadband and b) the call costs are eye-
watering.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
07:41:44 up 2 days, 22:05, 2 users, load average: 1.09, 1.12, 1.14
2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

In article <13o5qc6909p6v01@corp.supernews.com>,
Martin² <never@give.one> wrote:
[color=blue]
>8. no one can do that at present[/color]

the OP's No. 8 was:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> 8. ability to port in Bt numbers[/color][/color]

And your claim that no-one can do it is quite wrong, as several VoIP
providers have the ability to do this, either directly or via their
wholesale upstreams...

However, I'd suggest that it's not a "domestic" service but more of a
"business" service, so you ought to be prepared to pay for it.

Gordon

Dear Homeworker

You should also consider the types of support and location of the
providers infrastructure as these might be more important than the other
items on your list such as price. So best is to test a few for quality
(as experienced by you over your connection) and support.

As per your last line some other feature may well factor in, for example
virtual fax services (which we do with VoIP accounts).

Regards
Stephen

Homeworker wrote:
p
[color=blue]
>
>
> I have a small list of my OWN must haves at the moment ..anyone know a
> decent
> company that can suffice
>
>
> 1. ability to prepay by paypal
> 2. no monthly service charge
> 3. good rates
> 4. no contract
> 5. ability to choose a local number
> 6. multiple numbers to 1 viop line
> 7.different rings for different numbers
> 8. ability to port in Bt numbers
>
> an collection of othr features i dont know i need yt likely
>
>[/color]

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:02:34 GMT, "Homeworker" <novalid@fakeukadd.com>
wrote:

[color=blue]
>are they and landline/mobile calls are so cheap now theres no REAL saving is
>there?if yourplanning to keep your exisitng land line and mobile ?[/color]
No saving at all I have 500 free minutes airtime on my mobile and have
never come close to the 500 yet .
VOIP was just a gimmick to encourage people to spend money on ATA's
etc in the first instance and to avoid extortionate BT call charges
but now with all the free mobile minutes that are around and services
like 18866.com who provide a Geo number to call via mobile there
really isn't any need for voip at all .

[email]mymail@hotmail.co.uk[/email] wrote in
news:au17o3dbukadg0a2oss37f7c9p9gnbepen@4ax.com:
[color=blue]
> On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:02:34 GMT, "Homeworker" <novalid@fakeukadd.com>
> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>are they and landline/mobile calls are so cheap now theres no REAL
>>saving is there?if yourplanning to keep your exisitng land line and
>>mobile ?[/color]
> No saving at all I have 500 free minutes airtime on my mobile and have
> never come close to the 500 yet .
> VOIP was just a gimmick to encourage people to spend money on ATA's
> etc in the first instance and to avoid extortionate BT call charges
> but now with all the free mobile minutes that are around and services
> like 18866.com who provide a Geo number to call via mobile there
> really isn't any need for voip at all .
>[/color]
You will be struck down for heresay!
But.... I fear you are right. For most home users - let me repeat that
- for Most Home Users - voip is a technology solution looking for a
question.
The call charges are not competitive when you look at all the other
packages available (mobile / landline); the technology is unweildy
(unless you buy a locked ATA); the call quality can be flaky (unless you
have the nouce to be able to deal with the hardware).
I suspect voip's time will come, but it's not now!

"Mike the unimaginative" <Youremail@nospam.here> wrote in message
news:13o7lroheaghn3c@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> [email]mymail@hotmail.co.uk[/email] wrote in
> news:au17o3dbukadg0a2oss37f7c9p9gnbepen@4ax.com:
>[color=green]
>> On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:02:34 GMT, "Homeworker" <novalid@fakeukadd.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>are they and landline/mobile calls are so cheap now theres no REAL
>>>saving is there?if yourplanning to keep your exisitng land line and
>>>mobile ?[/color]
>> No saving at all I have 500 free minutes airtime on my mobile and have
>> never come close to the 500 yet .
>> VOIP was just a gimmick to encourage people to spend money on ATA's
>> etc in the first instance and to avoid extortionate BT call charges
>> but now with all the free mobile minutes that are around and services
>> like 18866.com who provide a Geo number to call via mobile there
>> really isn't any need for voip at all .
>>[/color]
> You will be struck down for heresay!
> But.... I fear you are right. For most home users - let me repeat that
> - for Most Home Users - voip is a technology solution looking for a
> question.
> The call charges are not competitive when you look at all the other
> packages available (mobile / landline); the technology is unweildy
> (unless you buy a locked ATA); the call quality can be flaky (unless you
> have the nouce to be able to deal with the hardware).
> I suspect voip's time will come, but it's not now![/color]

I don't know about other users, but for me it IS a question of cost. I am
sure that I could get a similar sort of costing through various override
codes on a standard fixed line + mobile. However I find it a lot easier
(and actually cheaper in my set-up) to get technology to do the hard bit of
least cost routing. Oh and I forgot all the benefits you don't get with
conventional services (call forking conditional divert, ...) or other
services you pay through the nose for (ACR, call blocking).

I agree with you though that the technology is unweildy, and that is a big
factor in what is stopping it becoming mainstream. However the likes of
Tesco and Vonage are the ones that will make it mainstream. Unfortunately
Skype destroys that to some extent (and yes Skype is VOIP, unfortunately)
because people see VOIP as a softphone, with all the restrictions that
gives.

Not quite heresy, but an opinion I don't entirely agree with!