UKVoIPTalk.com

or
"PhilT" <newsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fad996d5-1d3b-4cc7-af30-5422a92b0c60@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Ofcom today confirmed that from 8th September 2008, Voice over
> Internet Protocol (VoIP) services that allow users to make calls to
> normal national phone numbers must also have the ability to connect to
> 999 and 112.
>
> Statement: Regulation of VoIP services: Access to the emergency
> services.
>
> [url]http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/voip/voipstatement/[/url][/color]

Please read: must have the "ability" to connect to 999 or 112
I read all the inteersting reactions here about off-shore providers, about
traveling users with VOIP software on the laptops, about proxy-servers in
Brzail etc ...
I believe the point is that many VOIP users are also using VOIP at Home, at
a fixed location
For those users, it would be useful to be "able" to dial Emergency services

Sipgate in Germany for example offers the "ability" to dial 112. How this
works ?
a) users can opt-in or opt-out to this service. Hence traveling users,
without fixed location will opt-out.
b) users need to register to their website with their physical address. It
is the user's responsability to change their physical adress in case you
change location (for example: change to your week-end address every Friday
evening.
c) Calls to 112 or re-routed by Sipgate to the emergency service which
serves your location.
I believe this works fine, and there is no reason why this could not be
implemented widely (even with off-shore providers).
Of course, it will always remain the user's responsability to make sure the
system knows their whereabouts.
I don't think identification via the IP adress would ever work (for all the
reasons mentioned in this tread).

rgds,
Philippe (Belgium)

PhilT <newsnet@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Dec 5, 12:06 pm, "Graham." <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> AFAICS this doesn't begin to address the fact that many of us use offshore
>> providers.[/color]
>
>If you're bright enough to use an overseas provider you don't need
>OFCOM to tell you your phone can't dial 999.[/color]

Technically, if you are using a service marketed in/to the UK the rules apply to
your service no matter where they are based. Whether Ofcom can manage to enforce
it is a different matter.

Linus


--
Linus Surguy - Magrathea Telecommunications Ltd. Wholesale and retail telephone
services. [url]www.magrathea-telecom.co.uk[/url] [url]www.uknumber.co.uk[/url] [url]www.callthrough.co.uk[/url]
Looking for VoIP ? We're the largest wholesale numbering supplier in the UK!

"PhilT" <newsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fad996d5-1d3b-4cc7-af30-5422a92b0c60@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Ofcom today confirmed that from 8th September 2008, Voice over
> Internet Protocol (VoIP) services that allow users to make calls to
> normal national phone numbers must also have the ability to connect to
> 999 and 112.
>
> Statement: Regulation of VoIP services: Access to the emergency
> services.
>
> [url]http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/voip/voipstatement/[/url][/color]

Try dialling 999 from Cyprus, and you on the mobile network. Here we have
mobile starting 999!!!

On Dec 6, 12:31 am, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:[color=blue]
> "Graham." <m...@privacy.com> wrote in message[/color]
[color=blue]
> : : I had to use an old dial-up account in to obtain my
> : : Sipgate UK DDIs, somehow Sipgate was convinced
> : : my Broadband IP was non-UK and would not offer me
> : : a UK geo number.
>
> Hmm, what ISP..? I've heard of this problem with AOL but not any others.
>[/color]
Tiscali had a similar problem a few months ago with IP addresses
starting 79, There was a thread about it in one of the digital tv
groups, Someome had problems getting the ITV Local news streams to
work because the server belived the Tiscali was not based in the UK.

Linus Surguy wrote:
[color=blue]
> PhilT <newsnet@gmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>On Dec 5, 12:06 pm, "Graham." <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> AFAICS this doesn't begin to address the fact that many of us use
>>> offshore providers.[/color]
>>
>>If you're bright enough to use an overseas provider you don't need
>>OFCOM to tell you your phone can't dial 999.[/color]
>
> Technically, if you are using a service marketed in/to the UK the rules
> apply to your service no matter where they are based. Whether Ofcom can
> manage to enforce it is a different matter.[/color]

So what is Ofcom's definition of 'marketed to the UK'? Is it enough to have
web site in English? The only place I've ever heard about the various
Betamax services [for example] is in this august forum; has anyone else
ever seen any of their marketing?

Ofcom are going to have to put a bit of thought into this to avoid confusion
and FUD.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
15:21:20 up 25 days, 4:00, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.12, 0.13
Convergence, n: The act of using separate DSL circuits for voice and data

On Dec 6, 1:22 pm, "TheDragon" <Respond_To_News_o...@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Try dialling 999 from Cyprus, and you on the mobile network. Here we have
> mobile starting 999!!![/color]

I fail to see how that is relevant.

The requirement under discussion is for UK VoIP Service Providers to
provide emergency service provision. If I was using such a service in
Cyprus and I dialled 999 it would get routed the same way as if
dialled it when in the UK.

Regards

Jon

"Obsidian Order" <obsidian.order@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:a762a580-b058-4ba7-9e6c-d05ad39fe76b@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> On Dec 6, 12:31 am, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:[color=green]
>> "Graham." <m...@privacy.com> wrote in message[/color]
>[color=green]
>> : : I had to use an old dial-up account in to obtain my
>> : : Sipgate UK DDIs, somehow Sipgate was convinced
>> : : my Broadband IP was non-UK and would not offer me
>> : : a UK geo number.
>>
>> Hmm, what ISP..? I've heard of this problem with AOL but not any others.
>>[/color]
> Tiscali had a similar problem a few months ago with IP addresses
> starting 79, There was a thread about it in one of the digital tv
> groups, Someome had problems getting the ITV Local news streams to
> work because the server belived the Tiscali was not based in the UK.[/color]


That sounds like the problem I had about 2 years ago.
The problem resolved itself when I uograded to their 2Meg service
--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

<viperdudeuk@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:435f5b4b-e801-462d-8280-9216d5363d56@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com
: : On Dec 6, 1:22 pm, "TheDragon"
: : <Respond_To_News_o...@gmail.com> wrote:
: :
: : : Try dialling 999 from Cyprus, and you on the mobile
: : : network. Here we have mobile starting 999!!!
: :
: : I fail to see how that is relevant.
: :
: : The requirement under discussion is for UK VoIP Service
: : Providers to provide emergency service provision. If I
: : was using such a service in Cyprus and I dialled 999 it
: : would get routed the same way as if dialled it when in
: : the UK.

Which is rather silly when you think about it. What would the UK emergency
services be able to do for you in Cyprus..?

At the end of the day the only way anyone can remotely identify you when
using VoIP is by your IP address. This is next to useless for many people
who get a different dynamic address every time they switch on or reboot
their system. Even then all it will do is tell them where your ISP is
based (mine is in Brighton, but I'm not..!)

Also if you use a proxy server (I use one based in Brazil) then it gets
even sillier..!


Ivor

On Dec 7, 1:43 am, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
> At the end of the day the only way anyone can remotely identify you when
> using VoIP is by your IP address. This is next to useless for many people
> who get a different dynamic address every time they switch on or reboot
> their system. Even then all it will do is tell them where your ISP is
> based (mine is in Brighton, but I'm not..!)
>
> Also if you use a proxy server (I use one based in Brazil) then it gets
> even sillier..![/color]

If you read the Ofcom statement you will see one of the proposals is
to get the ISP to confirm subscriber address details in real time to
the emergency services. This in theory might be a solution in the
middle to long run but would need massive cooperation between the
various parties to work. However if such a system was setup it would
easily cope with dynamic IP allocation to subscribers.

The use of proxy servers would not necessarily stop this system from
working either.

Regards

Jon

On Dec 7, 7:06 am, "viperdud...@gmail.com" <viperdud...@gmail.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> If you read the Ofcom statement you will see one of the proposals is
> to get the ISP to confirm subscriber address details in real time to
> the emergency services.[/color]

I think this is fairly pointless. I have phoned the emergency services
on numerous occasions and in nearly every case had considerable
difficulty getting them to understand or accept the location of the
incident - the last thing we need to give them is some "evidence" of
where they think we are to add to their existing assumptions,
misconceptions and geographical ignorance.

I have reported fires at the other side of the valley, accidents a
couple of miles from my home, argued with some ****wit about whether
an accident that I was looking at was where I said it was or 3 miles
south on the other carriageway where he insisted it was (!), tried to
convince a fire service operator that the three appliances she assured
me were dealing with a fire were not at the large conflagration I was
staring at etc etc.

Location information should only be secondary to the verbal evidence
of the caller IMO.


Phil