UKVoIPTalk.com

Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me

Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.

I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws [url]www.vonage.co.uk[/url]
and [url]www.voipfone.co.uk[/url] this limits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for example [url]www.gradwell.com[/url], [url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
[url]www.voiptalk.org[/url], [url]www.tescointernetphone.com[/url], [url]www.timico.co.uk[/url]

I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

[email]meisadick@hotmail.co.uk[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
> Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
> questions for me
>
> Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
> been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
> VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
> of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
> for me.
>
> I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
> on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
> providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws [url]www.vonage.co.uk[/url]
> and [url]www.voipfone.co.uk[/url] this limits my options unless I am repaired to
> take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
> sticking to the rules for example [url]www.gradwell.com[/url], [url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
> [url]www.voiptalk.org[/url], [url]www.tescointernetphone.com[/url], [url]www.timico.co.uk[/url]
>
> I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
> the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
> regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
> regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
> these new laws just be ignored?[/color]

By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
[color=blue]
> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?[/color]

Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
seemingly without ill effect.
--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:[color=green]
> > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
> > questions for me[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
> > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
> > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
> > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
> > for me.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
> > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
> > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
> > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
> > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
> > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,[url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
> >[url]www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk[/url][/color]
>[color=green]
> > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
> > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
> > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
> > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
> > these new laws just be ignored?[/color]
>
> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
>[color=green]
> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?[/color]
>
> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
> seemingly without ill effect.
> --
> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -[/color]

it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
new laws [url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/[/url] having
read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
companies that are adhering to these laws

my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
near future.

also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.

Tom

<meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1180630265.813647.75920@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=green]
>> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:[color=darkred]
>> > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
>> > questions for me[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
>> > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
>> > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
>> > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
>> > for me.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
>> > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
>> > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
>> > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
>> > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
>> > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,[url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
>> >[url]www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk[/url][/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
>> > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
>> > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
>> > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
>> > these new laws just be ignored?[/color]
>>
>> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
>> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?[/color]
>>
>> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
>> regulations
>> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
>> complying
>> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
>> seemingly without ill effect.
>> --
>> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
>> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
>> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -[/color]
>
> it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
> new laws [url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/[/url] having
> read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
> companies that are adhering to these laws
>
> my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
> that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
> my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
> near future.
>
> also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
> laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
> so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.
>
> Tom[/color]

The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
cost me next to nothing to run.
If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
my budget providers to remain just that.

Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
services limitations.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On May 31, 8:38 pm, "Graham" <m...@privacy.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> <meisad...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1180630265.813647.75920@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>[color=green]
> > On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> >> > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
> >> > questions for me[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
> >> > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
> >> > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
> >> > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
> >> > for me.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
> >> > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
> >> > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
> >> > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthislimits my options unless I am repaired to
> >> > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
> >> > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,[url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
> >> >[url]www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk[/url][/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
> >> > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
> >> > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
> >> > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
> >> > these new laws just be ignored?[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
> >> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
> >> regulations
> >> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
> >> complying
> >> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
> >> seemingly without ill effect.
> >> --
> >> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
> >> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
> >> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> - Show quoted text -[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
> > new lawshttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/having
> > read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
> > companies that are adhering to these laws[/color]
>[color=green]
> > my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
> > that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
> > my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
> > near future.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
> > laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
> > so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Tom[/color]
>
> The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
> cost me next to nothing to run.
> If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
> how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
> submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
> Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
> Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
> my budget providers to remain just that.
>
> Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
> the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
> services limitations.
>
> --
> Graham.
> %Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -[/color]

And of course comply with the laws of the country that they wish to
sell in otherwise what is the point in making laws that are for the
benefit of the end user.

As far as I'm aware the companies I mentioned in my previous posts are
all uk companies but while I'm on the subject [url]www.sipgate.co.uk[/url] don't
seem to be taking any notice of the laws either.

Ironic really when you consider that they can sell to the uk and
provide uk numbers yet the German government won't allow German
numbers to be sold outside of Germany because THATS THE LAW

On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham" <me@privacy.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
><meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1180630265.813647.75920@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>>> > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
>>> > questions for me
>>>
>>> > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
>>> > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
>>> > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
>>> > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
>>> > for me.
>>>
>>> > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
>>> > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
>>> > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
>>> > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
>>> > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
>>> > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,[url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
>>> >[url]www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk[/url]
>>>
>>> > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
>>> > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
>>> > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
>>> > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
>>> > these new laws just be ignored?
>>>
>>> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
>>> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
>>>
>>> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
>>> regulations
>>> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
>>> complying
>>> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
>>> seemingly without ill effect.
>>> --
>>> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
>>> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
>>> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -[/color]
>>
>> it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
>> new laws [url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/[/url] having
>> read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
>> companies that are adhering to these laws
>>
>> my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
>> that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
>> my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
>> near future.
>>
>> also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
>> laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
>> so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.
>>
>> Tom[/color]
>
>The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
>cost me next to nothing to run.
>If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
>how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
>submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
>Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
>Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
>my budget providers to remain just that.
>
>Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
>the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
>services limitations.[/color]
voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I remember
correctly, they do say that you may need to give your location.
However, on their customer site, there is a place for entering your
address details for the 999 service.
Frankly, as regards people being informed about the reliability of
voip compared to a landline, I think it is just stupid.
Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones inform people
that the phones won't work when the power goes off. It amounts to the
same thing. If people can't work out that ATAs, and the like, require
power to work then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
think that the majority of people are aware that their cordless phones
won't work in a power outage. Some people say to me that they don't
need their wired phone now they have cordless, I often have to inform
them of the power problem.
Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still works so I
power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and an 240V inverter.

Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of Vonage and similar
companies) are well aware of voip limitations - they set up their own
ATAs so they are not stupid.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

Sign petition to get High Definition TV via Freeview.
Ofcom want to aution off the spectrum needed for Hi Def
TV.
[url]http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/High-Definition/[/url]

<meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1180647815.212774.81300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com

[snip]
[color=blue]
> Ironic really when you consider that they can sell to the
> uk and provide uk numbers yet the German government won't
> allow German numbers to be sold outside of Germany
> because THATS THE LAW[/color]

Sipgate don't sell numbers, they're free.


Ivor

On May 31, 5:51 pm, meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:[color=blue]
> On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>[color=green]
> > meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:[color=darkred]
> > > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
> > > questions for me[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
> > > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
> > > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
> > > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
> > > for me.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
> > > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
> > > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
> > > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthislimits my options unless I am repaired to
> > > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
> > > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,[url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
> > >[url]www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk[/url][/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
> > > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
> > > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
> > > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
> > > these new laws just be ignored?[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
> > operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
> > are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
> > with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
> > seemingly without ill effect.
> > --
> > <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
> > 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
> > 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -[/color]
>[color=green]
> > - Show quoted text -[/color]
>
> it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
> new lawshttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/having
> read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
> companies that are adhering to these laws
>
> my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
> that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
> my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
> near future.
>
> also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
> laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
> so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.
>
> Tom- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -[/color]

I looked at Sipgate because they're mentioned a lot here. They give
out UK numbers but they seem to be German. How do they do that? Can I
get a German number from a UK company? do they have the same laws?

Tom

"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umfu53ttrcmvmf775d6sq5p9ecm0ialbke@4ax.com[color=blue]
> On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham"
> <me@privacy.com> wrote:[/color]

[snip]
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Please leave things as they are. It's horses for
> > courses, the only thing the providers should be
> > compelled to do is clearly set out their services
> > limitations.[/color]
>
> voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I
> remember correctly, they do say that you may need to give
> your location. However, on their customer site, there is
> a place for entering your address details for the 999
> service.[/color]

To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is about 999 access.
Most people have mobiles these days, in a business environment it's highly
unlikely that there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax over SIP, for
example, is still somewhat problematic). This could be used for 999 calls,
perhaps..?

Here, my system is programmed so that any 999 calls are automatically
routed over the BT line, it's an easy step in the setup of the Fritz!Box
that acts as the main router/ATA.
[color=blue]
> Frankly, as regards people being informed about the
> reliability of voip compared to a landline, I think it is
> just stupid.[/color]

People *are* stupid, you have to tell them how to do everything. Why, I
have no idea as they rarely read the instructions..!
[color=blue]
> Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones
> inform people that the phones won't work when the power
> goes off. It amounts to the same thing. If people can't
> work out that ATAs, and the like, require power to work
> then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
> think that the majority of people are aware that their
> cordless phones won't work in a power outage. Some people
> say to me that they don't need their wired phone now they
> have cordless, I often have to inform them of the power
> problem.[/color]

Every cordless phone I've bought has a notice in the instruction book that
a wired phone will be required for emergency access in the event of a
power failure. But I'm one of those rare people that actually read them,
so I saw this ;-)
[color=blue]
> Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still
> works so I power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and
> an 240V inverter.[/color]

I run all my comms stuff off a UPS.
[color=blue]
> Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of
> Vonage and similar companies) are well aware of voip
> limitations - they set up their own ATAs so they are not
> stupid.[/color]

Some of them are, unfortunately.

Ivor

<meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1180648337.269022.60160@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com

[snip]
[color=blue]
> I looked at Sipgate because they're mentioned a lot here.
> They give out UK numbers but they seem to be German. How
> do they do that?[/color]

Because they trade in the UK.
[color=blue]
> Can I get a German number from a UK company? do they have the same laws?[/color]

You can get numbers from a lot of countries from a lot of providers. I
have US, German and UK numbers from several.

Ivor