UKVoIPTalk.com

<meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1180619131.524049.138060@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
> questions for me
>
> Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
> been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
> VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
> of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
> for me.
>
> I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
> on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
> providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws [url]www.vonage.co.uk[/url]
> and [url]www.voipfone.co.uk[/url] this limits my options unless I am repaired to
> take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
> sticking to the rules for example [url]www.gradwell.com[/url], [url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
> [url]www.voiptalk.org[/url], [url]www.tescointernetphone.com[/url], [url]www.timico.co.uk[/url]
>
> I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
> the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
> regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
> regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
> these new laws just be ignored?
>
> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
>[/color]

Unless I am missing something [url]www.voip.co.uk[/url] have always offered 999 calls.

On May 31, 11:00 pm, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:[color=blue]
> "Brian A" <no_spam_bca1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:umfu53ttrcmvmf775d6sq5p9ecm0ialbke@4ax.com
>[color=green]
> > On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham"
> > <m...@privacy.com> wrote:[/color]
>
> [snip]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Please leave things as they are. It's horses for
> > > courses, the only thing the providers should be
> > > compelled to do is clearly set out their services
> > > limitations.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I
> > remember correctly, they do say that you may need to give
> > your location. However, on their customer site, there is
> > a place for entering your address details for the 999
> > service.[/color]
>
> To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is about 999 access.
> Most people have mobiles these days, in a business environment it's highly
> unlikely that there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
> usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax over SIP, for
> example, is still somewhat problematic). This could be used for 999 calls,
> perhaps..?
>
> Here, my system is programmed so that any 999 calls are automatically
> routed over the BT line, it's an easy step in the setup of the Fritz!Box
> that acts as the main router/ATA.
>[color=green]
> > Frankly, as regards people being informed about the
> > reliability of voip compared to a landline, I think it is
> > just stupid.[/color]
>
> People *are* stupid, you have to tell them how to do everything. Why, I
> have no idea as they rarely read the instructions..!
>[color=green]
> > Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones
> > inform people that the phones won't work when the power
> > goes off. It amounts to the same thing. If people can't
> > work out that ATAs, and the like, require power to work
> > then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
> > think that the majority of people are aware that their
> > cordless phones won't work in a power outage. Some people
> > say to me that they don't need their wired phone now they
> > have cordless, I often have to inform them of the power
> > problem.[/color]
>
> Every cordless phone I've bought has a notice in the instruction book that
> a wired phone will be required for emergency access in the event of a
> power failure. But I'm one of those rare people that actually read them,
> so I saw this ;-)
>[color=green]
> > Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still
> > works so I power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and
> > an 240V inverter.[/color]
>
> I run all my comms stuff off a UPS.
>[color=green]
> > Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of
> > Vonage and similar companies) are well aware of voip
> > limitations - they set up their own ATAs so they are not
> > stupid.[/color]
>
> Some of them are, unfortunately.
>
> Ivor[/color]

I think you are missing my point ivor.

The point I am trying to make is that I'm looking for a provider that
is law abiding and seen to be sticking to the rules.
[color=blue]
>From what I can see there are only two to choose from. My question is[/color]
how can all these companies ignore what is now law? Are offcom able to
enforce these regulations? And if so would this mean closure of any
companies that do not comply?

I do not want to find that in 6 months time the provider I have chosen
has to close, I have lost my numbers, and my business is affected.

Tom

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:5c8usdF3066tlU1@mid.individual.net...[color=blue]
> To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is about 999 access.
> Most people have mobiles these days, in a business environment it's highly
> unlikely that there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
> usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax over SIP, for
> example, is still somewhat problematic). This could be used for 999 calls,
> perhaps..?
>
> Here, my system is programmed so that any 999 calls are automatically
> routed over the BT line, it's an easy step in the setup of the Fritz!Box
> that acts as the main router/ATA.[/color]

I *do* understand what all the fuss is about. I have previously had
problems calling 999 on a VoIP service that is supposed to offer the service
(voip.co.uk). Add to that a simultaneous problem with the local mobile
phone mast...

In my case the 3-4 minutes extra it took to find a phone that worked didn't
make a great deal of difference. However I now have a fixed line precisely
so that I can make 999 calls. By the way, voip.co.uk say they have now
resolved the issue which was with one of their downstream carriers, but I
don't want to risk that again.

Mind you it does remind me that I don't have a corded phone in the house,
not that that makes a great deal of difference with the FritzBox which
provides no service in a power outage (PSTN fallover does not work).

[email]meisadick@hotmail.co.uk[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=green]
>> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
>>> questions for me
>>> Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
>>> been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
>>> VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
>>> of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
>>> for me.
>>> I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
>>> on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
>>> providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
>>> andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
>>> take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
>>> sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,[url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
>>> [url]www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk[/url]
>>> I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
>>> the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
>>> regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
>>> regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
>>> these new laws just be ignored?[/color]
>> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
>> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?[/color]
>> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
>> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
>> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
>> seemingly without ill effect.
>> --
>> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
>> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
>> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -[/color]
>
> it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
> new laws [url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/[/url] having
> read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
> companies that are adhering to these laws
>[/color]

how are you determining whether or not we meet OFCOM's new criteria?

cheers
peter

"Herman" <whhitehousemadhouse-2005@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:8iQ7i.6061$VS.4271@newsfe3-win.ntli.net[color=blue]
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5c8usdF3066tlU1@mid.individual.net...[color=green]
> > To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is
> > about 999 access. Most people have mobiles these days,
> > in a business environment it's highly unlikely that
> > there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
> > usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax
> > over SIP, for example, is still somewhat problematic).
> > This could be used for 999 calls, perhaps..? Here, my system is
> > programmed so that any 999 calls are
> > automatically routed over the BT line, it's an easy
> > step in the setup of the Fritz!Box that acts as the
> > main router/ATA.[/color]
>
> I *do* understand what all the fuss is about. I have
> previously had problems calling 999 on a VoIP service
> that is supposed to offer the service (voip.co.uk). Add
> to that a simultaneous problem with the local mobile
> phone mast...
> In my case the 3-4 minutes extra it took to find a phone
> that worked didn't make a great deal of difference. However I now have a
> fixed line precisely so that I can
> make 999 calls. By the way, voip.co.uk say they have now
> resolved the issue which was with one of their downstream
> carriers, but I don't want to risk that again.[/color]

It's too much of a pain, how do you tell them you're not at your home
location..? With a memory like mine, I'd forget. Easier to use a mobile.
[color=blue]
> Mind you it does remind me that I don't have a corded
> phone in the house, not that that makes a great deal of
> difference with the FritzBox which provides no service in
> a power outage (PSTN fallover does not work).[/color]

Hmm, interesting. Never tested that, but then I have a UPS.

Ivor

<meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1180650279.263031.261310@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com

[snip]
[color=blue]
> I think you are missing my point ivor.
>
> The point I am trying to make is that I'm looking for a
> provider that is law abiding and seen to be sticking to
> the rules.[/color]

These "rules" you keep mentioning, can you summarise them for me please..?
What are they and why would a company have to close for non-compliance..?
[color=blue][color=green]
> > From what I can see there are only two to choose from.
> > My question is[/color]
> how can all these companies ignore what is now law? Are
> offcom able to enforce these regulations? And if so would
> this mean closure of any companies that do not comply?[/color]

Obviously not, as they're still around..! Again, please summarise.
[color=blue]
> I do not want to find that in 6 months time the provider
> I have chosen has to close, I have lost my numbers, and
> my business is affected.[/color]

Sipgate have been running for almost 3 years.

Ivor

Brian A wrote:[color=blue]
> Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones inform people
> that the phones won't work when the power goes off. It amounts to the
> same thing.[/color]


At one time, cordless phones did have warning stickers. There will
always be somebody trying to introduce fear and a `safety case` argument
against any new technology.

Also, a lot of them used to have a place in the power supply to put in
dry (not rechargeable) AA batteries to keep the base going if the power
went off.

Of course, now we all know that cordless phones aren't going to cause
millions of people to die because they can't dial 999.


Tim

"Tim" <nutnews@kooky.org> wrote in message
news:465fff4a$0$647$bed64819@news.gradwell.net[color=blue]
> Brian A wrote:[color=green]
> > Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones
> > inform people that the phones won't work when the power
> > goes off. It amounts to the same thing.[/color]
>
> At one time, cordless phones did have warning stickers.
> There will always be somebody trying to introduce fear
> and a `safety case` argument against any new technology.[/color]

The manuals of every cordless phone I've seen include this. Of course we
all read the manuals, don't we ;-)
[color=blue]
> Also, a lot of them used to have a place in the power
> supply to put in dry (not rechargeable) AA batteries to
> keep the base going if the power went off.[/color]

They still do, but they only maintain the internal memory, they don't
allow the phone to be used during a power failure.
[color=blue]
> Of course, now we all know that cordless phones aren't
> going to cause millions of people to die because they
> can't dial 999.[/color]

Gosh.

Ivor

Ivor Jones wrote:[color=blue]
> These "rules" you keep mentioning, can you summarise them for me please..?
> What are they and why would a company have to close for non-compliance..?[/color]

I can't find the relevant ofcom document, even though I've read it recently.

But it comes down to:

1) ITSPs must provide access to 999 services. I guess that means 112 as
well.

2) If the customer wants it, their ITSP must provide them with a label
for their phone that says:

“Emergency calls may fail if you have a power cut or your broadband
connection fails”


I have a part code for a suitable label, should anybody wish to buy one
for their phone.

Tim

"acdeag" <KWDQVSEETUHW@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:oWH7i.28942$Ro3.18499@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...[color=blue]
> <meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1180619131.524049.138060@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
>> questions for me
>>
>> Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
>> been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
>> VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
>> of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
>> for me.
>>
>> I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
>> on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
>> providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws [url]www.vonage.co.uk[/url]
>> and [url]www.voipfone.co.uk[/url] this limits my options unless I am repaired to
>> take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
>> sticking to the rules for example [url]www.gradwell.com[/url], [url]www.voip.co.uk[/url],
>> [url]www.voiptalk.org[/url], [url]www.tescointernetphone.com[/url], [url]www.timico.co.uk[/url]
>>
>> I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
>> the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
>> regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
>> regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
>> these new laws just be ignored?
>>
>> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
>>[/color]
>
> Unless I am missing something [url]www.voip.co.uk[/url] have always offered 999
> calls.[/color]

I just have set it up in my PAP2 to go to the Police when 999 is dialled, OK
it's not the real 999 but it is the Police and it's manned 24/7 and they
just redirect you to the real 999.

I phoned them up to test and ask.