UKVoIPTalk.com

In message <MPG.20d7158aa4280ef398aa92@text.usenet.plus.net>
Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> [email]clavox@btinternet.com[/email] declared for all the world to hear...[color=green]
> > Once more I say this is a FORUM[/color]
>
> It is possible to be posting through a forum website, but this is very
> much a newsgroup.
>
> You have posted your message using a "newsreader", not a "forum-reader"
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
>
> Also taken from your headers:
> Newsgroups: uk.telecom.voip
>
> Newsgroup. Not forum.[/color]

And therefore is a forum for discussion, in the general sense of
the word "forum".

Dave

On 2007-06-11, Jono <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ivor Jones has brought this to us :[color=green]
>>
>> I'm still not a European.[/color]
>
> What about Earthling?[/color]

'I was not born in a country called Earth therefore I cannot be a
Earthling.'

Nonsense of course, but no more so than what has already been claimed.

Brian.

On 2007-06-11, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrnf6qhnt.2tq.bandj@mymachine.invalid[color=green]
>>
>> There is no sensible answer to the question 'Were you born in a
>> country called Europe?'. The premise is nonsense. It doesn't matter
>> what is said subsequently as the foundation of the argument is
>> flawed. The conclusion is nonsense.[/color]
>
> Therefore calling someone a European is nonsense.[/color]

The 'Therefore' is spurious. It gives the impression you are drawing a
valid conclusion. Your premise is fallacious. No valid conclusion can be
drawn from an invalid premise.

Taking that sentence (without 'Therefore') as a standalone statement you
appear to be saying that there is no group of people which can be called
European.
[color=blue]
> But we've been here before.[/color]

Have we? I don't recollect. Were you as completely illogical then as
now?

Brian.

"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf6rptp.2tq.bandj@mymachine.invalid[color=blue]
> On 2007-06-11, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:slrnf6qhnt.2tq.bandj@mymachine.invalid[color=darkred]
> > >
> > > There is no sensible answer to the question 'Were you
> > > born in a country called Europe?'. The premise is
> > > nonsense. It doesn't matter what is said subsequently
> > > as the foundation of the argument is flawed. The
> > > conclusion is nonsense.[/color]
> >
> > Therefore calling someone a European is nonsense.[/color]
>
> The 'Therefore' is spurious. It gives the impression you
> are drawing a valid conclusion. Your premise is
> fallacious. No valid conclusion can be drawn from an
> invalid premise.[/color]

I *am* drawing a valid conclusion. Pity you can't see it.
[color=blue]
> Taking that sentence (without 'Therefore') as a
> standalone statement you appear to be saying that there
> is no group of people which can be called European.[/color]

I never said that. I said I am not one.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > But we've been here before.[/color]
>
> Have we? I don't recollect. Were you as completely
> illogical then as now?[/color]

Logic isn't everything. Or is your real name Mr. Spock..?

Ivor

"Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message
news:2aqdnXkBa58x-vDbnZ2dnUVZ8qaqnZ2d@pipex.net[color=blue]
> Ivor Jones wrote:[/color]

[snip]
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > [url]http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/forum.html[/url][/color]
> >
> > Ok so that says a forum can be called a newsgroup. That
> > doesn't make it correct. It is wrong. Or do you believe
> > everything you read on a website..?
> >[color=darkred]
> > > > [url]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/forum[/url][/color]
> >
> > That one doesn't even mention the word newsgroup.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Why should it?[/color]

Because you're trying to tell me that a newsgroup is a forum. It isn't.
[color=blue]
> Try reading the definition: "c. A medium
> of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a
> radio or television program"[/color]

We're not talking about a newspaper or television programme.
[color=blue]
> A newsgroup is a medium of open discussion i.e. its
> neither censored nor moderated, therefore it is perfectly
> reasonable to call a newsgroup a forum.[/color]

No it isn't. It is a newsgroup.
[color=blue]
> Now I sit back and await your carefully thought out and
> reasoned argument which will probably be "No it isn't"[/color]

True, but it isn't. Saying anything else would be incorrect.

Ivor

"Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message
news:6eSdnSq_ytJT-_DbnZ2dnUVZ8surnZ2d@pipex.net

[color=blue]
> The UK is part of Europe therefore you are European. Just
> saying I'm not is not a very convincing argument.[/color]

Just saying I am isn't, either. The UK is part of Europe I agree but that
doesn't automatically make me a European.

In any case, I don't have to convince you either way. The truth is still
the truth, whether you believe it or not.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Also given that Wikipedia can be edited by all and
> > sundry, relying on it to prove a point is somewhat
> > flaky.[/color]
>
> Guess these must have also been hacked then.
>
> [url]http://europa.eu/abc/european_countries/index_en.htm[/url]
> [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3954327.stm[/url]
> [url]http://www.coe.int/T/E/Com/About_Coe/Member_states/[/url][/color]

Anything's possible, although I don't suppose they have been.

I'm still not a European though.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > > > Count 3 - The post was spam as it promoted a
> > > > > > service.
> > > > > I still can't find this alleged service that was
> > > > > promoted. No web site, no email address, no
> > > > > telephone number. HArdly spam by anyones standard.
> > > > It is, it was promoting a service. Not my problem if
> > > > you can't see it.
> > > Ok, show me where the service is then. Show me where
> > > this service exists.[/color]
> >
> > Ok, so maybe it doesn't, yet. That doesn't mean it
> > can't be advertised. Car makers advertise a forthcoming
> > model all the time.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> But at least I can visit a web site and see the new
> model. I still can't find this service you claim is
> advertised and neither can you.[/color]

True. That still doesn't make the OP's message not spam.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > > > Count 4 - Sipgate are still in business after 4
> > > > > > years, if they were truly crap they wouldn't be.
> > > > > BTopenworld are still going. Lidl, Iceland etc.
> > > > So they must be doing *something* right..?
> > > Nope, they just have morons for customers.[/color]
> >
> > Hmm. Is this another of those sweeping statements Ron
> > Chew is so fond of..?[/color]
> Lidl "When you are just too pikey for Iceland"[/color]

Ah. So it is then.

Ivor

<clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:hq1r631jt4o6k4dav4t2bcii8mfi4kj6ae@4ax.com[color=blue]
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:40:12 +0100, Desk Rabbit
> <nospam@example.com> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
> > Nope, they just have morons for customers.[/color]
>
> That is very obvious they have the odd supporter
> the frequents this FORUM .[/color]

They have morons for ex customers as well.

Ivor

"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.5c4c7d767bc09145.48968@blueyonder.invalid[color=blue]
> Ivor Jones formulated on Monday :[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > A forum is a place to meet and discuss. The Forum in
> > > Rome is a collection of ruins but it is still a forum.[/color]
> >
> > But this group isn't.[/color]
>
> Why can it be a "group" but not a "forum"?[/color]

Because a newsgroup is a newsgroup, a forum is a forum. It's like calling
a bus a coach. They are two different vehicles. They're similar, but not
the same.

Ivor

"Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:9bda6df14e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com[color=blue]
> In message
>
> <MPG.20d7158aa4280ef398aa92@text.usenet.plus.net> Jon
> <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > [email]clavox@btinternet.com[/email] declared for all the world to
> > hear...[color=darkred]
> > > Once more I say this is a FORUM[/color]
> >
> > It is possible to be posting through a forum website,
> > but this is very much a newsgroup.
> >
> > You have posted your message using a "newsreader", not
> > a "forum-reader" X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
> >
> > Also taken from your headers:
> > Newsgroups: uk.telecom.voip
> >
> > Newsgroup. Not forum.[/color]
>
> And therefore is a forum for discussion, in the general
> sense of the word "forum".[/color]

But not in the specific terms of Usenet definitions.

Ivor

Ivor Jones wrote:[color=blue]
> "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> news:mn.5c4c7d767bc09145.48968@blueyonder.invalid[color=green]
>> Ivor Jones formulated on Monday :[color=darkred]
>>>> A forum is a place to meet and discuss. The Forum in
>>>> Rome is a collection of ruins but it is still a forum.
>>> But this group isn't.[/color]
>> Why can it be a "group" but not a "forum"?[/color]
>
> Because a newsgroup is a newsgroup, a forum is a forum. It's like calling
> a bus a coach. They are two different vehicles. They're similar, but not
> the same.[/color]

No, calling a newsgroup a forum is like calling a bus a vehicle.