UKVoIPTalk.com

Mike wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 05 May 2007 21:35:52 +0000, {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
>[color=green]
>> No problems here.[/color]
>
> Thanks {{{{{Welcome}}}}}. I know you're on ntl. Are you worried this
> traffic shaping will affect your voip usage?[/color]

Traffic shaping shouldn't have any effect on VOIP if your router gives
preference to VOIP traffic (QOS)
A voice channel only uses about 65Kbps each way which means even on a
2MB connection cut back to 1Mb you still have plenty of spare bandwidth
besides, AFAIK it's only the down stream which is "shaped" and on most
broadband connections it's upstream which is the limiting factor.

Pete
--
[url]http://www.gymratz.co.uk[/url] - Gym Equipment and Fitness Equipment UK

Mike wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 05 May 2007 21:35:52 +0000, {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
>[color=green]
>> No problems here.[/color]
>
> Thanks {{{{{Welcome}}}}}. I know you're on ntl. Are you worried this
> traffic shaping will affect your voip usage?[/color]


I'm on xTelewest 4mbit broadband, this will drop to 2mbit if I get
traffic shaped, I don't see that this will be a problem for me, at the
moment I just run two lines both with G711 codec, 2mbit is still more
than enough for download, with my upload limited to 192Kb if I am
shaped.

The upload speed that is being shaped too:
[url]http://abcde.co.uk/virginmedia/stm.html[/url]

I've not hit a point yet to become shaped, so I will have to wait and
see. It may mean using a different codec if it becomes a problem, not
that I really want to switch away from G711.


--
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Tom Cumming wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 05 May 2007 23:28:11 +0000, Harry Stottle wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "Mike" <mike@home.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Ef6%h.4539$2i.4050@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> I have been having similar problems with Voipfone, I notice that you
>> are also on NTL - VirginMedia, could there be a connection?
>> I am in the Nottingham area on NTL, and you appear to be in the
>> Leicester area though.[/color]
>
> I use Sipgate over a Virgin Media ADSL connection (ie former
> virgin.net customer) - does anyone know if they are affected by this
> "traffic shaping" as well?
>
> Thanks[/color]



Not sure, with Virgin ADSL they have a Fair Use cap set at 40Gb (at
least they did a couple of weeks back).


--
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Pete @ [url]www.GymRatZ.co.uk[/url] has brought this to us :
[color=blue]
> A voice channel only uses about 65Kbps each way which means even on a 2MB
> connection cut back to 1Mb you still have plenty of spare bandwidth besides,
> AFAIK it's only the down stream which is "shaped" and on most broadband
> connections it's upstream which is the limiting factor.[/color]

Although uploads do not count towards the threshholds before STM is
introduced, VM will reduce your upload speed if STM is triggered.

Pete @ [url]www.GymRatZ.co.uk[/url] wrote:
[color=blue]
> Traffic shaping shouldn't have any effect on VOIP if your router gives preference to VOIP traffic (QOS)[/color]

Unfortunately, mine doesn't, so any reduction might be problematic.
[color=blue]
> A voice channel only uses about 65Kbps[/color]

That depends on the codec you're using
[color=blue]
> AFAIK it's only the down stream which is "shaped" and on most broadband connections it's upstream which is the limiting factor[/color]

As Jono said, they're also reducing the upload if you get hit, and 128kb
(on the 2Mb package) doesn't leave much headroom if you want to do
something else whilst you use the phone.

--
Mike

Mike wrote:[color=blue]
> Pete @ [url]www.GymRatZ.co.uk[/url] wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Traffic shaping shouldn't have any effect on VOIP if your router
>> gives preference to VOIP traffic (QOS)[/color]
>
> Unfortunately, mine doesn't, so any reduction might be problematic.
>[color=green]
>> A voice channel only uses about 65Kbps[/color]
>
> That depends on the codec you're using
>[color=green]
>> AFAIK it's only the down stream which is "shaped" and on most
>> broadband connections it's upstream which is the limiting factor[/color]
>
> As Jono said, they're also reducing the upload if you get hit, and 128kb
> (on the 2Mb package) doesn't leave much headroom if you want to do
> something else whilst you use the phone.[/color]

Indeed.
I hadn't realised they were hitting the up-stream as well as the down.
:¬(

Pete
--
[url]http://www.gymratz.co.uk[/url] - Gym and fitness equipment specialists

In article <Qj90i.15536$Ro3.12145@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
GymRatZ <bigone@gymratz.co.uk> wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> As Jono said, they're also reducing the upload if you get hit, and 128kb
>> (on the 2Mb package) doesn't leave much headroom if you want to do
>> something else whilst you use the phone.[/color]
>
>Indeed.
>I hadn't realised they were hitting the up-stream as well as the down.
>:¬([/color]

You can only effectively traffic shape/apply QoS to data leaving your home
network out to the big bad Internet (Virgin, et al. can shape their entire
network as they control entry and exit) however, as incoming is usually
a lot faster than outgoing, you can do quite effective traffic shaping/QoS
yourself if you have a good router/firewall device. It will never be 100%
perfect, but for the most part it will be perfectly acceptable. Different
devices work in different ways, but if you can give a high priority to
outgoing SIP and RTP packets (or IAX if you're using an IAX service),
then you'll be well on your way to having an acceptable service -
certianly for a home user. Even on a 128Kbps outgoing line, you'll be
able to carry one G711 call (which needs 80Kbps each way)

However I've no idea what consumer devices are good these days - obviously
with cable you need one with 2 Ethernet ports - one on the WAN side and
one on the LAN side. I've used Drayteks successfully in the past - 2900's
for such things, but they're not cheap. (And I'm not a great fan of them
these days - don't try their VPN facilities over anything other than a
512Kbps line!)

I have successfully handled 4 simultaneous SIP calls at G711 using a
ADSL-MAX line (448Kbps upstream) while still having acceptable internet
access, although I don't do things like p2p file-sharing, and I have
a decent ISP (Zen).

Gordon

Jono wrote:[color=blue]
> Pete @ [url]www.GymRatZ.co.uk[/url] has brought this to us :
>[color=green]
>> A voice channel only uses about 65Kbps each way which means even on a
>> 2MB connection cut back to 1Mb you still have plenty of spare
>> bandwidth besides, AFAIK it's only the down stream which is "shaped"
>> and on most broadband connections it's upstream which is the limiting
>> factor.[/color]
>
> Although uploads do not count towards the threshholds before STM is
> introduced, VM will reduce your upload speed if STM is triggered.
>
>[/color]

Which is a royal pain, since the QoS relies on you setting your
available upstream bandwidth, which will drop.

I'd be a lot happier if it was just the downstream bandwidth that dropped.