UKVoIPTalk.com

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:4vq935F1d8m1hU1@mid.individual.net...[color=blue]
> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in
> message
> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net[color=green]
>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups
>> recently about if companies are obliged to quote VAT
>> inclusive prices when advertising goods or items for sale
>> to the general public. The main objectors against quoting
>> VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public,
>> and their argument was that because they do not have to
>> quote VAT inclusive prices when selling to other
>> companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting VAT
>> inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.[/color]
>
> Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the relevance to
> uk.telecom.voip..?
>[/color]

There was a recent thread in uk.telecom.voip which mentioned Gradwell
Communications not quoting VAT on their services aimed at home users. If
I remember correctly, Peter Gradwell argued that he did not have to
quote VAT inclusive prices to personal customers because Gradwell
Communications was mainly aimed at business users, I argued otherwise,
and, if I remember correctly again, you commented in that thread,
agreeing with me :-)

I have just revisited Gradwell's site and it seems not much has changed,
there is a slight improvement where I found one price that included VAT.

"Gordon Hudson" <hostroute@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4597debd$0$757$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...[color=blue]
>
> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...[color=green]
>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
>> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
>> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
>> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
>> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
>> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
>> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>>
>> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)[/color]
>
> Sadly ASA has no clout.
> It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
> difference.
> My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it
> makes us look more expensive than our competitors.[/color]


Just had a very quick look at your site. Right at the top you say "UK
Reseller web hosting from £9", but there's no mention that this is a VAT
inclusive price. Why not grab the attention of the potential customer
immediately by stating "VAT INCLUDED" in a very prominent manner. You are
not doing yourself any favours by counting on anyone taking the time to
delve in & discover it for themselves.

Joe Lee

[color=blue]
> Gordon Hudson || Hostroute.com Ltd
> e-mail:ghudson [at] hostroute.net
> [url]http://www.hostroute.co.uk/resellers[/url] Host 5 web sites for £9 per month
> [url]http://www.nameroute.co.uk/[/url] Domain Names with free hosting and email
> [url]http://www.myqth.co.uk/[/url] 3000MB of web space for £29 per year[/color]

"Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress> wrote in message
news:45985682$0$27099$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...[color=blue]
>
> "Gordon Hudson" <hostroute@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4597debd$0$757$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...[color=green]
>>
>> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
>> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...[color=darkred]
>>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
>>> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
>>> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
>>> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
>>> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
>>> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
>>> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>>>
>>> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)[/color]
>>
>> Sadly ASA has no clout.
>> It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
>> difference.
>> My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it
>> makes us look more expensive than our competitors.[/color]
>
>
> Just had a very quick look at your site. Right at the top you say "UK
> Reseller web hosting from £9", but there's no mention that this is a VAT
> inclusive price. Why not grab the attention of the potential customer
> immediately by stating "VAT INCLUDED" in a very prominent manner. You are
> not doing yourself any favours by counting on anyone taking the time to
> delve in & discover it for themselves.[/color]

Thats a fair point, we do actually play this up in some of our advertising
but not on the web site because its simply too complex to try and sell that
idea.
Potential customers don't know that other sites they are looking at don't
include VAT.
They compare the headline prices as its only the first few sentences that
get read on any site when people are doing comparisons and the main dcision
making factor is price.
The only way we can compete on a level playing field would be to quote ex
vat prices the same as everyone else.
I have considered doing that but its surprisingly more complicated (accounts
wise) than doing it VAT inclusive.

In any case, business users DO pay the VAT if they buy the service!
They may or may not be able to reclaim it but that is a seperate issue and
as they are also charging thier customers VAT then they probably never get
anything back in cash from HMRC, they will be paying out to them.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:07:45 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the relevance to
>uk.telecom.voip[/color]

Gradwell: a company that mostly sells business services, but has a
separate home user section where prices are NOT shown with VAT
included, as they should be.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:01:08 -0000, "Gordon Hudson"
<hostroute@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it makes
>us look more expensive than our competitors.[/color]

One of our clients was suffering the same way. Their main competitor
is more expensive, but showed prices without VAT, so looked cheaper.

Then I noticed that they were doing the same on Froogle. To their
credit, Google very rapidly took action, and suspended the
competitor's Froogle listing until the prices were shown VAT-included.
At the same time, the competitor started showing both VAT inc and VAT
exc prices on the site, so they no longer look cheaper when they
aren't.

In message of Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Ivor Jones writes[color=blue]
>
>Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the relevance to
>uk.telecom.voip..?
>[/color]
It has a lot more relevance than some of the rubbish you're currently
posting to another thread in this group. So if you haven't got anything
useful to add - stay out.

On 31 Dec 2006, "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote:
[color=blue]
>There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
>if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
>goods or items for sale to the general public.[/color]

Will be interesting to see if the PC magazines which have for years been
comparing "PCs under 800 pounds" or similar (500, 1000, etc) will make a
change so those prices now include VAT, rather than being ex-VAT costs!!

If the magazines were solely for business users, it would be acceptable to
have the comparisons on prices excluding VAT, but these are PC mags on the
shelves of newsagents across the country, and aimed at consumers...

On 31 Dec 2006, "Gordon Hudson" <hostroute@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Another classic con is £1.99 per month but they only take annual payment and
>the VAT is not included so the actual price you will pay is £28.05.
>Our cheapest service is £29 per year.
>
>£28.05 and £29.00 are not much different.
>£1.99 headline price looks a lot cheaper.[/color]

Sounds like a 1and1 price... Guess what... I've used Hostroute for years
and before that had quibbles with 1and1 (like them lying about Nominet's
requirements, making cancelling rather difficult, taking the debit with
no advance notice, and so on... but fortunately I got away from them a
while back and would never touch them again :-)

In article <4597a65f$0$97263$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,
Harry Stottle <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> writes[color=blue]
>Regarding eBay, perhaps someone should send a copy of the ruling to
>them[/color]

Have you contacted eBay about anything recently? My guess is that if
this were reported to them, they would send out a reply explaining how
rounding adjustments work! That's about how much notice they take of you
contacting them.

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

In article <MPG.2001e96ff92b7b6398a212@news.ntlworld.com>, Lordy. UK
<spam@recycle.bin> writes[color=blue][color=green]
>> Interestingly. Tazbar have been running TV ads.
>> Wonder how well they are really doing.[/color]
>
>I have a shop on eBay, signed up to TazBar in December after some people
>gave favourable reports but I haven't had a single sale through them
>yet. My eBay sales have been through the roof.[/color]

Same here.
[color=blue]
>I *sooo* want TazBar to do well but the odds are stacked well against
>them :/[/color]

Can't see why a buyer would bother. eBay has way more ads, and as the
buyer doesn't pay the listing fees, nor have to deal with the greedy
faceless monster, they don't have the incentive to change.

Sadly, I can't see Tazbar, or any of the other wannabees having a chance
against eBay.

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)