UKVoIPTalk.com

"Puffnstuff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ip09m2p08pm4feg5ptsc268ltt2atpqdti@4ax.com[color=blue]
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:03:58 -0000, "steveybar"
> <noone@yahooooooo.co.uk> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> > "Puffnstuff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:k248m21usiga2jv1lmlhortsmi2dphpmi9@4ax.com...
> >[color=darkred]
> > > snip<[/color]
> >[color=darkred]
> > > Now STFU[/color]
> >
> > Puffnstuff - Do you really have to be so rude to
> > people..........!! - there is no need at all.[/color]
>
> Why not when people are so rude to others?
> Reeling off tons of techie rubbish in an attempt to shame
> Skype users.[/color]

Where is anyone doing that..? And what makes you think it's rubbish..?
Unless of course you don't understand it...

Wondering why the hell anyone wants to use Skype isn't shaming them. I
don't care what people use, that doesn't stop me wondering why on earth
they'd want to use it.

Ivor

ßødincµs²°°° wrote:[color=blue]
> Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
> |"ßødincµs²°°°" <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote in message
> |news:MPG.1fcc5d86656d44e19896e6@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> |
> |[snip]
> |
> |> Skype is an Instant Messaging system, like Yahoo (that
> |> was doing voice chat AGES before Skype) or MSN.
> |> It doesn't belong to VoIP, the VoIP protocols are SIP and
> |> H323.
> |
> |Actually, much as I hate to admit it, technically it *is* voice over ip..!
> |
> |BTW there is also IAX.
> |
> |Ivor
> |
> Forgot 'bout IAX, is it a ratified standard like SIP or H323?
>
> Anyway, ever heard about ISO OSI levels? Well, IM (Skype, Yahoo, etc...)
> voice traffic doesn't reach the IP ISO OSI level in the TCP stack. Being
> a proprietary protocol it stands - by definition - at application level,
> aka level 7.
> IP protocol is way down
> there
> |
> |
> |
> V[/color]

So, do you understand what the 'o' in VoIP stands for? I guess not.

Voice chat services of IM clients is clearly VoIP.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 01:12:39 GMT, ßødincµs²°°° <this.em@il.is.invalid>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>This statement says it all. Let me examine it...
>
>1) "...it will get through a university firewall that block
>voipcheap...". = Security hole + Uni network policy violation + higher
>bill to the Uni (that's paid with MY taxes, too).
>I don't like the sound of it, and the Uni network admins either.
>
>[/color]
You obviously don't pay for boardband access for a student at
university, which is more than I pay for my home broadband. As for the
uni network admins, on several occassions the network was down due to
either a faulty port on a router or more likely a cable being
unplugged, which would take them a week to sort out.

regards

nemo2

"ßødincµs²°°°" <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1fcc5d86656d44e19896e6@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...[color=blue]
> I'm starting to suspect that we are seeing some nasty marketing
> techniques infecting this newsgroup.
> Too many "pro-Skype" messages, with too many trolls talking wonders
> about the easiness of this, the affordability of that, etc... and
> arguing against the "serious" stuff.
> The suspect is that these people are bribed by Skype to advertise it
> with the "viral marketing" technique to infiltrate relevant newsgroups,
> and outweighing the balance to their (economic) advantage.
> Any newbie reading some recent messages could get the big picture wrong.
> Can we stick to the chapter, and talk about Voice over IP?
> Skype is an Instant Messaging system, like Yahoo (that was doing voice
> chat AGES before Skype) or MSN.
> It doesn't belong to VoIP, the VoIP protocols are SIP and H323.
> I don't want to sound "geek", but can we have a breath of fresh air?
>
> TA
>
> --
> ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
> ----------------------------
> Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
> $: Access Violation -- Core dumped[/color]

Fine by me.
Personally I'm not a big Skype fan.
Its okay, but you need your PC switched on all the time to use it seriously
as a phone service.
Not very green is it.
Useless to those of us with SIP phones...
Say no more. The S word will pass my lips no more.

RH:[color=blue]
>SIP : Download software bang your head against brickwall to configure
>software and router, lots of testing needed to make sure it works, then
>family needs to find out the IP address they are using (as not static IP)
>so eventually it all works really well,[/color]

Buy a router with built in VoIP ports, you don't need to do anything at all
to dial IP numbers, it's not difficult for people to find and tell you their
IP no. (there are ways to get round dynamic ones). To use VoIP provider you
need to do no more then to input in log in details on a setup webpage, as
per manual.
Took me five minutes.
The only thing which can be hard is to set up the QoS parameters, but that
isn't essential.
Regards,
Martin

Recently, Puffnstuff popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 01:12:39 GMT, ßødincµs²°°° <this.em@il.is.invalid>
|wrote:
|
|>Do this with Skype.
|
|But there you are, people don't want to **** about.
|They just want to download something plug their headset in and it
|works, which is what Skype does, and does well.
|
|You are a nerd and love nerdy things, thank heavens most people arent
|
|Now STFU
|
Banned.

--
ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
----------------------------
Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
$: Access Violation -- Core dumped

Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...

<snip>
Don't feed the troll.

--
ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
----------------------------
Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
$: Access Violation -- Core dumped

Recently, RH popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|Traditional SIP is problematic due to ports which need to be open and
|routing of these ports
|where as SKYPE is designed go through firewall systems.
So, if something exploits a hole or circumvents a protection is good
because it fits your scope? What the h... "I don't care about anything,
I need this and that's it". A responsible and sensible approach, my
compliments.

|Not all universities are against skype being run by students
Name one that's NOT against it.

|> 2) "...skype is esay to support..." = Like early MacOS, everything was
|> concealed to the user "because it's better they don't know". Wrong
|> business model. Open source OS based PCs are outnumbering Macs, and Open
|> Source OSs are around by 1/10th than MacOS.
|I can bet that is probably true with china and a few other countries pushing
|linux, at government level
|but i can think of no one apart from overt techy people who prefer Linux
|over XP, the costs of linux
|can be way higher in terms of costs of time than XP. In regard to Macs this
|is a small market
|limited by hardware choice, IMHO OS X is the best user level OS based on
|unix/linux, like XP it tends to just work, no need to run compile scripts
|just to install a small peiece of software and no need to go round hunting
|web forums trying to find the answers
Missed the point, is the BUSINESS MODEL that's flawed. Let me help you
with another example: Skype is a proprietary application, with an
enclosed user base, with no interaction between it and other Instant
Messengers. Even Yahoo and Microsoft are now letting people on their IMs
to "cross the fence" and talk to each other, whereas Skype doesn't. Oh,
remember that both Yahoo messenger and MSN Messenger DO voice chat, but
none of them pretend to be a VoIP communication system.
Why colossus like Microsoft and Yahoo are "converging" and Skype is
stuck on its own? Can you see the point at the end of the tunnel?
Also, Skype is NOT the cheapest real time voice communication system,
both because the equipment needed is more expensive to own and to run (a
PC, or the latest Skype enabled WiFi terminals) against a router and a
basic wired phone, the calls tariffs aren't cheap either, and the
services are expensive (an incoming landline number is WAY more
expensive on Skype than with the average SIP provider).

|> Skype is an expensive toy (to run securely) and I'm - again - too old to
|> play around.
|> A hundred quid for an all-in-one ADSL VoIP Wireless router (AVM Fritz!
|> Box Fon WLAN) and everything is served: 4 VoIP lines, 2 wired
|> extensions, broadband with traffic shaping, wired / wireless internet
|> throughout the house.
|> I'm using business grade VoIP telephony since August 2005, and a month
|> ago I ditched my landline. Never been happier.
|> Do this with Skype.
|Again you have failed to see the purpose and advantages of skype. I agree
|you have a nice setup which could not easily be done by skype, But I also
|use SKYPE, mainly so people can contact me free of charge but it is also
|great when travelling, If I am staying at a hotel with a wifi connection, I
|can just load up skype and talk, impossible usually with SIP, same if I go
|to friends house or internet cafe, I can usually just run software and go,
|no fiddling with someone elses router.
How could you be so wrong, it's impossible to say. I can do THE SAME
with a free SIP phone software on my laptop wherever you can do your
things with Skype.
The SIP (Session Initiation Protocol) takes care of everything, you
don't have to configure a firewall to go through, except where the
administrator EXPRESSLY is blocking outgoing traffic of any nature.
Any stateful inspection firewall will let your traffic go through
because it's originated FROM a device on the internal side of the
network.
You see, I can do the same as you (actually more than you); I'm a better
user because I was forced to know more; I'm spending less money; I'm
using open standards; I'm more environmentally friendly because my
equipment uses less energy; my equipment is cheaper and more reliable; I
have a redundant service (if a provider is down, there are at least
other three I can use); my three year old daughter is calling her
grandpa in Italy with a push of a button on a basic phone (and doesn't
hurt my pocket).
See my point?

|People have different needs, A multi million pound F1 car has the most
|modern uptodate engine and fancy gearboxes and goes superfast and is
|technically better than a ford focus, But is useless for most drivers needs
|living an average city life. And if skype was such a bad useless product no
|one would be using it
It's not useless, it's just all the hype around it that makes me sick,
like all the fuss with iPods and PS3 and whatever.
Hype, hype and nothing else, based on a sidereal space void.

--
ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
----------------------------
Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
$: Access Violation -- Core dumped

Recently, Paul Cupis popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|ßødincµs²°°° wrote:
|> Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
|> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|> |"ßødincµs²°°°" <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote in message
|> |news:MPG.1fcc5d86656d44e19896e6@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk
|> |
|> |[snip]
|> |
|> |> Skype is an Instant Messaging system, like Yahoo (that
|> |> was doing voice chat AGES before Skype) or MSN.
|> |> It doesn't belong to VoIP, the VoIP protocols are SIP and
|> |> H323.
|> |
|> |Actually, much as I hate to admit it, technically it *is* voice over ip..!
|> |
|> |BTW there is also IAX.
|> |
|> |Ivor
|> |
|> Forgot 'bout IAX, is it a ratified standard like SIP or H323?
|>
|> Anyway, ever heard about ISO OSI levels? Well, IM (Skype, Yahoo, etc...)
|> voice traffic doesn't reach the IP ISO OSI level in the TCP stack. Being
|> a proprietary protocol it stands - by definition - at application level,
|> aka level 7.
|> IP protocol is way down
|> there
|> |
|> |
|> |
|> V
|
|So, do you understand what the 'o' in VoIP stands for? I guess not.
|
|Voice chat services of IM clients is clearly VoIP.
|
Do you deserve an answer? Hmmm... Let me think...
It probably will end way down in your deep well of ignorance and get
lost.
So, NO, you don't deserve an answer.
But - wait! You had an answer... Oh, whatever...
Voice over Internet Protocol is WAY different that "Voice chat services
through internet". Internet is NOT all IP, is also ATM, BB, and a
plethora of other protocols to let the data flow.
You can talk using two PCs through a direct modem connection on a leased
or dial-up line - using Voice enabled modems, but that AIN'T VoIP.
So stop muddling the water.
Ignorance is not an excuse, Wikipedia and Google are your best friends.
--
ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
----------------------------
Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
$: Access Violation -- Core dumped

Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|"Puffnstuff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
|news:ip09m2p08pm4feg5ptsc268ltt2atpqdti@4ax.com
|> Why not when people are so rude to others?
|> Reeling off tons of techie rubbish in an attempt to shame
|> Skype users.
|
|Where is anyone doing that..? And what makes you think it's rubbish..?
|Unless of course you don't understand it...
[url]http://www.literature.org/authors/aesop/fables/chapter-209.html[/url]
I cant' reach it, so it's rubbish.

|Wondering why the hell anyone wants to use Skype isn't shaming them. I
|don't care what people use, that doesn't stop me wondering why on earth
|they'd want to use it.
Because it's "kool" like the overpriced rotten apple's iPod, with its
crappy sounding earplugs, rubbish battery life, peeling paint and "don't
look at me or I'll crack" display. But it looks "soooooo cuuuute..."
They've been f**** in the past, are still now and will be in the future.
Do you care? I don't do anymore.

--
ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
----------------------------
Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
$: Access Violation -- Core dumped