UKVoIPTalk.com

Recently, Puffnstuff popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...

|How sad you are.
Gotcha! Typical reaction of the boy caught red-handed.

Oh, and learn to snip properly... Ever heard of Netiquette?
Ask to Wikipedia...

--
ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
----------------------------
Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
$: Access Violation -- Core dumped

Recently, nemo2 popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:22:04 -0000, "RH"
|<spicedham@no-ham-exelsys.com> wrote:
|
|>snipped
|>Don't get me wrong I am not a super Skype user, I like my SIP systems as
|>well, running Trixbox with multiple SIP providers, but SKYPE does have its
|>place in the world. and without skype the whole home user VOIP sector would
|>be smaller. How many people on this list first looked at VOIP through SKYPE,
|>I know I did.
I did setup for one of my customers a voice intercom system running
through Internet when Skype wasn't even conceived, with Yahoo Messenger.
I've been there, etc...

|>I know I should not feed the trolls, but have done in this case...
|>
|RH,
|
|I have to admit that I use skype, the main reason is that it will get
|through a university firewall that blocks voipcheap. As my daughter is
|no longer in halls I could go back to voipcheap, but skype is easy to
|support; well it just appears to work.
This statement says it all. Let me examine it...

1) "...it will get through a university firewall that block
voipcheap...". = Security hole + Uni network policy violation + higher
bill to the Uni (that's paid with MY taxes, too).
I don't like the sound of it, and the Uni network admins either.

2) "...skype is esay to support..." = Like early MacOS, everything was
concealed to the user "because it's better they don't know". Wrong
business model. Open source OS based PCs are outnumbering Macs, and Open
Source OSs are around by 1/10th than MacOS.

3) "...well it just appears to work." = I'm washing my hands of the
consequences to my PC security, my network neighborhood connection
(shared) bandwidth clogged, and too much people relying on the same
stuff (we've been into this already, Mr. Gates loves you all).
Isn't this a bit irresponsible?

|I'm not worried about the security aspect of skype as we don't talk
|about anything confidential on skype. However, in reality what are the
|chances of my conversation being interceted by somebody who could
|capture the concersation and then use the information; not high I
|suspect.
The security hole is NOT in the fact that your conversation can be
tapped into, but the fact that some hackers - using bespoke crafted
packets pretending to be belonging to Skype traffic - can bypass your
firewall.

|I thought that your response was a good one, people use skype, because
|it's easy and a lot of other people use it and most of them won't know
|or care who owns skype.
I don't care neither, I'm too old to care... But I've been there, seen
that, and bought the T-shirt.
Skype is an expensive toy (to run securely) and I'm - again - too old to
play around.
A hundred quid for an all-in-one ADSL VoIP Wireless router (AVM Fritz!
Box Fon WLAN) and everything is served: 4 VoIP lines, 2 wired
extensions, broadband with traffic shaping, wired / wireless internet
throughout the house.
I'm using business grade VoIP telephony since August 2005, and a month
ago I ditched my landline. Never been happier.
Do this with Skype.

--
ßødincµs²°°° - The Y2K Druid
----------------------------
Law 42 on computing: Anything that could go wron@~ ¬
$: Access Violation -- Core dumped

RH:[color=blue]
>there is no real alternative to skype for free internet calls, yes you can
>do it with SIP providers....[/color]

Wrong ! You DON'T need any SIP providers, you can make free calls to any one
with SIP software / equipment just by dialling their IP number.
Regards,
Martin

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 01:12:39 GMT, ßødincµs²°°° <this.em@il.is.invalid>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Do this with Skype.[/color]

But there you are, people don't want to **** about.
They just want to download something plug their headset in and it
works, which is what Skype does, and does well.

You are a nerd and love nerdy things, thank heavens most people arent

Now STFU

"Martin²" <never@give.one> wrote in message
news:4563b050$0$8712$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...[color=blue]
> RH:[color=green]
>>there is no real alternative to skype for free internet calls, yes you can
>>do it with SIP providers....[/color]
>
> Wrong ! You DON'T need any SIP providers, you can make free calls to any
> one with SIP software / equipment just by dialling their IP number.
> Regards,
> Martin[/color]

Ok, I have family abroad, I want to chat to them using a VOIP system:

SKYPE : Register and download and RUN (5 minutes or so)

SIP : Download software bang your head against brickwall to configure
software and router, lots of testing needed to make sure it works, then
family needs to find out the IP address they are using (as not static IP)
so eventually it all works really well,

However you are then buggered if more than one person wants to run a system
in the house or someone wants to install at their office at work on a mid
sized lan

(time could be days if trying to get a non technical person to get it
working)

> |I have to admit that I use skype, the main reason is that it will get[color=blue]
> |through a university firewall that blocks voipcheap. As my daughter is
> |no longer in halls I could go back to voipcheap, but skype is easy to
> |support; well it just appears to work.
> This statement says it all. Let me examine it...
>
> 1) "...it will get through a university firewall that block
> voipcheap...". = Security hole + Uni network policy violation + higher
> bill to the Uni (that's paid with MY taxes, too).
> I don't like the sound of it, and the Uni network admins either.[/color]

Traditional SIP is problematic due to ports which need to be open and
routing of these ports
where as SKYPE is designed go through firewall systems.

Not all universities are against skype being run by students
[color=blue]
> 2) "...skype is esay to support..." = Like early MacOS, everything was
> concealed to the user "because it's better they don't know". Wrong
> business model. Open source OS based PCs are outnumbering Macs, and Open
> Source OSs are around by 1/10th than MacOS.[/color]

I can bet that is probably true with china and a few other countries pushing
linux, at government level
but i can think of no one apart from overt techy people who prefer Linux
over XP, the costs of linux
can be way higher in terms of costs of time than XP. In regard to Macs this
is a small market
limited by hardware choice, IMHO OS X is the best user level OS based on
unix/linux, like XP it tends to just work, no need to run compile scripts
just to install a small peiece of software and no need to go round hunting
web forums trying to find the answers
[color=blue]
> Skype is an expensive toy (to run securely) and I'm - again - too old to
> play around.
> A hundred quid for an all-in-one ADSL VoIP Wireless router (AVM Fritz!
> Box Fon WLAN) and everything is served: 4 VoIP lines, 2 wired
> extensions, broadband with traffic shaping, wired / wireless internet
> throughout the house.
> I'm using business grade VoIP telephony since August 2005, and a month
> ago I ditched my landline. Never been happier.
> Do this with Skype.[/color]

Again you have failed to see the purpose and advantages of skype. I agree
you have a nice setup which could not easily be done by skype, But I also
use SKYPE, mainly so people can contact me free of charge but it is also
great when travelling, If I am staying at a hotel with a wifi connection, I
can just load up skype and talk, impossible usually with SIP, same if I go
to friends house or internet cafe, I can usually just run software and go,
no fiddling with someone elses router.

People have different needs, A multi million pound F1 car has the most
modern uptodate engine and fancy gearboxes and goes superfast and is
technically better than a ford focus, But is useless for most drivers needs
living an average city life. And if skype was such a bad useless product no
one would be using it

"Puffnstuff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:k248m21usiga2jv1lmlhortsmi2dphpmi9@4ax.com...
[color=blue]
>snip<[/color]
[color=blue]
> Now STFU[/color]

Puffnstuff - Do you really have to be so rude to people..........!! - there
is no need at all.

But I suppose if you haven't got the intelligence to constructively state
your case.........

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:03:58 -0000, "steveybar"
<noone@yahooooooo.co.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Puffnstuff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:k248m21usiga2jv1lmlhortsmi2dphpmi9@4ax.com...
>[color=green]
>>snip<[/color]
>[color=green]
>> Now STFU[/color]
>
>Puffnstuff - Do you really have to be so rude to people..........!! - there
>is no need at all.[/color]

Why not when people are so rude to others?
Reeling off tons of techie rubbish in an attempt to shame Skype users.

[color=blue]
>
>But I suppose if you haven't got the intelligence to constructively state
>your case.........
>[/color]
Ahhhhhhhh so you dont like me being rude but its OK for you to do so?
Right I see where your coming from now, dont do what I do, do as I say

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:40:05 GMT, ßødincµs²°°° wrote:
[color=blue]
>No, IM voice traffic is NOT VoIP (see my follow-up to Ivor post).
>I'm NOT against Skype in principle, but it's The Poor Man's choice.[/color]

Don't knock us - there are a lot of us about.

"Puffnstuff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:k248m21usiga2jv1lmlhortsmi2dphpmi9@4ax.com[color=blue]
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 01:12:39 GMT, ßødincµs²°°°
> <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Do this with Skype.[/color]
>
> But there you are, people don't want to **** about.
> They just want to download something plug their headset
> in and it works, which is what Skype does, and does well.
>
> You are a nerd and love nerdy things, thank heavens most
> people arent
>
> Now STFU[/color]

Ah, the old "I don't understand it so I'll rubbish it" argument. Coupled
with the "I've lost the argument so I'll start swearing" defence.

Neither do a jot for your credibility, old boy. I suggest *you* do the
shutting up.


Ivor